DOMestic Bdsm and Female Domination

I have always admired Christine's and David's open-mindedness,
but this is a request for information about how to get money
from "generous" submissives. I don't think this site ever dealt
with this sort of thing.

If Pam wants to get into this kind of business she might Google
"money slaves" and get a lot of ideas.

Frankly, I don't think this kind of post has a place here but
again I respect DOMestic's wonderful openness.

Michele

Pam wrote:

>i am interested in this and have thought about making it a
>profitable side line..... any ideas how i would go about it?
>There is one guy...... should i say is generous and he would
>like me to be dominant...... but for a service like this.....
>well I presume it comes expensive. Your advice would be
>appreciated.

Find a real job, Pam. The person who has the money in this type
of relationship is the one who has all the power, not you. You
may manage the appearance of power and dominance but that isn't
likely to be what you'll end up with. This may look like a great
profession and it may even be one in the short term, but the
long term may be bleak. For one thing, the older you get the
fewer clients you're likely retain and the more likely you are
to face a future of poverty.

Is your generous friend going to set you up and pay your
expenses? What does he get out of that? Is the relationship
likely to get sexual? If so, you'll either be his mistress or a
prostitute with a whip, not a Domme.

You'll have a lot of up front costs. Most pros have a dungeon
with expensive equipment they need to maintain. Your wardrobe
will cost a small fortune.

Most of the pro's I know have had at least one brush with the
police. Their guilt or innocence may be determined by public
opinion formed by what they read about your life in the
newspapers. Those opinions may limit your ability to move in
better social circles and your children may suffer as a result
of your career choice.

Also, the older pro's I know are trying to develop their
sidelines as they get older. Their life is getting more
difficult and more complicated as they age. Is that what you
want for yourself? If it is, then go for it.

The cost of a dungeon in a metropolitan area, the cost of your
toys/tools, and don't forget about the cost of your wardrobe
which will range from a few hundred dollars to thousands. It's
one thing if you have that kind of cash lying around. Since
you're looking for a sideline, my guess is you can't afford the
investment. I've talked to a few women who think this is a dandy
idea for spare cash. One of them was doing it to cover the cost
of her child's milk money and her phone bill.

I've met some of the top pro-Dommes in the world, Pam. You'd
better be stunningly beautiful and incredibly skilled to make
enough money to pay your expenses and set aside retirement
funds.

Additionally, most submissives have a very strong need to
control. I'll bet you think this is your idea to become a pro,
but I'd also bet money it's the brainchild of your generous
friend. Look that gift horse in the mouth. Ask yourself what's
the worst that could come of that relationship because that's
probably what you'll be dealing with the first time you make a
decision he doesn't like.

There's also another consideration here. Whether you're a
lifestyler or a pro you're still going to want to develop
certain skills. Why not develop skills that will increase your
earning power in a legitimate field instead of trying to take a
shortcut that has so many potential downsides?

Personally, I don't like taking on partners. It seems smarter to
empower myself with education or get money from a bank to buy or
build a business and retain my autonomy. Why would you trade it
off to someone who just wants to own a piece of you cheap?

Madam

Hello,

Michele wrote:

>I have always admired Christine's and David's open-mindedness,

Thanks Michele. Great to hear you are still with us.

>but this is a request for information about how to get money
>from "generous" submissives.

I thought it is was more like asking how much to charge a chap
who had pretty much already agreed to be generous with her. At
least that was my reading of the post.

>I don't think this site ever dealt with this sort of thing.

It's certainly not typical of posts here. But I see nothing
inherently wrong with asking the questions that Pam asked, and I
was hoping she would get advice on how to be professional about
becoming a professional dominant if that is what she really
wanted to do. I thought folk might suggest some responsible
resources.

>If Pam wants to get into this kind of business she might
>Google "money slaves" and get a lot of ideas.

Probably, and no doubt she would see some stuff that is quite
irresponsible. I'm sure she would get much better advice from
folk on DOMestic. I see that Madamplz has as usual given some
excellent advice to Pam that surpassed anything I could have
written.

>Frankly, I don't think this kind of post has a place here

Then it may surprise you to know that I suggested that Pam post
her message here when she wrote to me privately. I didn't feel
qualified to answer her questions and didn't see any reason why
her question and any answers she got to her question should not
be published on DOMestic.

So this is what I wrote to Pam when I suggested DOMestic as
somewhere she could ask for advice...

"I'm not competent to advise you about dominating for money, my
interest is in couples, but no doubt someone on the list can
advise you."

>but again I respect DOMestic's wonderful openness.

Thanks Michele. We'll try and remain open.

sincerely,
Christine at Ms-Christine.com

Renew or get your DOMestic password at
http://www.mschristine.com/domsub4.shtml

Christine,

I may have been too harsh in my comments on Pam's post. I was
"judgmental" - a capital sin.

Actually I had not understood Pam's request the way you did. To
me, she seemed to be interested in starting a career, and I
think Madamplz, in her as-usual thoughtful response, felt about
the same.

I must add that just a few days earlier I had done some research
on the net about the weird phenomenon of "money slaves" - men
who give women money and gifts without being supposed to expect
anything in return. There are dozens of Dominatrixes, I found
out, who are into this sort of thing and my research probably
influenced my post.

Anyway this was an opportunity to come back to DOMestic after a
fairly long absence (although I still read the posts faithfully).

I have been involved with French D/s sites since last fall and
that has reduced the time I used to devote to DOMestic. One of
those sites, SUPREMATIE FEMININE, is connected to a French
version of Elise Sutton's sites, although it is quite independent
and some of the members are quite critical of Sutton at times.

By the way I have mentioned DOMestic several times on that site,
but most of the members know little or no English... My research
on money slaves was for a discussion on the subject on the SF
site.

To those who remember me, you may be pleased to know that I am
still with Kate and still very much in love, while Severin is
still a wonderful submissive who has completely accepted Kate
and the situation.

PS to Madamplz: you were very right in some of your predictions,
as usual!

Michele

I've been giving Pam's pro-domme question some more thought in
the last couple of days. Someone asks this question every once
in awhile so I thought it might be helpful to figure it out in
terms of practical expenses without writing up an entire
business plan. When you weigh all the options (in this case,
only some of them) the decision is a lot easier to make.

As a lifestyler I've tallied the total expense of my clothing to
be about $39,000. The breakdown on this is approximately $18,000
for my fetish clothing, another $7,000 in boots, shoes, and
leather coats. Add to that another $14,000 in whips, floggers,
sounds, cups, crops and other various clips, clamps, tools and
implements. I do not own any fetish furniture.

I'd say my collection of stuff is fairly modest by comparison to
what my pro friends would call necessities. Add the cost of at
least a massage or GYN table and a St. Andrew's cross to these
expenses, plus the expense of a minimum one year lease on a
space which would then need to be redecorated as a dungeon
space. Then there's the cost of advertising, hospitality and
supplies. You can price these things out by an online window
shopping spree but I don't think it's really necessary for the
purpose of our discussion.

A pro working at $250/hour would need to work 160 hours just to
cover those expenses. It doesn't sound like much until you
realize each of those hours represents one client. That makes
the need for advertising apparent. Do we know how much money
your generous client is willing to put up to establish you?

My guess is that you could consider his support in terms of a
couple of months before he loses interest. As I said earlier,
money changes the relationship entirely. You're likely to
continue to view him as a 'generous friend'. Conversely, he's
likely to view you as paid in full when he wants to experience
another pro. Money allows a man to justify a lack of involvement
on his part and reciprocity on yours.

Since it's your name on the lease, he can walk away and leave
you with that financial obligation. If you can't pay it that
will screw up your credit, not his. If he's married you will
most likely be unable to call him if you need help whether it's
financial or emotional.

He will set the terms as to what he'll make available to you.
Remember, he's weighing what it costs to "help" you against the
cost of simply paying for a pro who is already in business. He
probably only needs you to purchase whatever toys he needs for
his fantasy. If his fantasy only involves foot worship you won't
see a dime for anything other than a pedicure.

Don't be offended. For him it's a matter of getting his needs
met in the cheapest way possible. I know it doesn't make you
feel good to see yourself as the cheaper way to solve his
problem but that's a fair assessment.

Learn to see with your eyes wide open. Contrast this to a real
job. Let's look at nursing, for example, simply because I've
been recently discussing that with a friend.

You could take a student loan and go to nursing school and
become a Licensed Vocational Nurse in one year. A brief internet
search indicates you'll pay about $14,000-16,000 for your
education and in your first year you'll average a salary of
$44,000.

There are hospitals paying signing bonuses for nurses right now.
A friend recently got a $10,000 bonus for signing with a
hospital. That means if she earns the national average, she'll
have paid a net of about $4,000 for an education that earns her
11 times what she paid to attain a certifiable level of
proficiency.

(I think the Small Business Administration would consider a
business to be good if it makes a profit in 5-7 years. I don't
think they've ever done the research on the business of being a
professional dominatrix).

If she works as an LVN for 25 years and never gets a raise
she'll earn over a million dollars. By the way, she also gets a
fabulous health and dental package and a 401K.

Another perk that a dominant can easily see is that you'll learn
how to safely execute a lot of very fun skills you can apply to
some lucky submissive you really want to torture - some that
come to mind are catheterization, sounds, enemas and prostate
massage. This seems like a lot more fun to me.

Additionally, she can use her education as an LVN to get her
Registered Nursing certificate in about two years. Her earning
power will then be $68,000 a year. She's planning on
specializing in gerontology as a Physician's Assistant. It will
require one more year of school but will increase both her
earning power and her job security. I don't see her suffering
for a lack of aging patients any time soon.

A nursing degree puts you in charge of your money and will help
you build towards your retirement. As a pro, you may be forced
to take on clients you wouldn't let shine your shoes if money
were not an issue. There are other inequities, too. As a pro you
may be limited to the clients in your geographic area. As a
nurse, you can decide what area of the country you want to live
in and go get a job there. You won't feel the need to protect
your family by living a double life as a nurse, either.

I've known a few women who've considered putting their fate in
the hands of a man who has his interest at heart, not hers.
While that kind of man may make it seem very easy and even
logical for you to rely on them you do so at your peril. Money
and power are only really yours if you generate it yourself.
Even if you marry these things are subject to the relationship
itself and can be terminated at any time without notice.

It would be nice if you only had to consider the best case
scenario in which you'd become an overnight pro-Domme sensation
with more clients than you can handle. My advice for any woman
considering this is to consider the worst case scenario -
committing yourself to some sort of an arrangement with a man
who appears generous but who may cut you off and leave you in
debt and waiting for a welfare check in between clients you'd
rather not touch.

I hope this is more helpful. Good luck with your decision.

Madam

Michele wrote:

>To me, she seemed to be interested in starting a career, and I
>think Madamplz, in her as-usual thoughtful response, felt
>about the same.

Good to hear from you again Michele.

Yes, I did interpret Pam's post in the same way. I've met many
women who've thought becoming a pro-domme was a really easy way
to earn a living. In my opinion, there are much easier ways that
would protect their futures and also allow them to enjoy
dominating a man strictly for pleasure.

For me, the payoff would never be great enough if it came in the
form of cash or "tribute" as some euphemistically call it. I do
what I do because I enjoy doing things because I can.

Incidentally, I have a very good friend who is a money slave and
have had a few very entertaining jaunts with him. I've taken him
shopping with me and a few friends. I found I really enjoyed
encouraging my friends to shop for fetish items. After a couple
of hours I'd have the sales clerk tally the damages and tell him
to "Pay the man, harold".

I don't know why that phrase tickled me so but it did. I'm sure
it did not hurt at all that he was very "dominant" in his chosen
field. It pleased me to make him feel a need to grovel for me,
frankly. It would not have been nearly as much fun to take cash
from him. Likewise, had I needed money from him I doubt he would
have enjoyed what we were doing. Perhaps I'll go into that
relationship a bit more at another time.

He was a very interesting man with whom I had a lot of fun -
literally, at his expense and of course, to his delight. There
are a lot of dominant women walking around today in custom
corsets I had him purchase for them.

But money slaves don't usually get a charge from handing over
cash - it's about being made to purchase something in order to
please. For this man in particular, it could also be about
carrying around an overwhelming load of purchases for which he'd
had to pay. Whenever I think of him I always see him stumbling
along the streets with all but his feet buried behind bags and
boxes.

Most of the men with whom a pro would come into contact are not
money slaves, anyway. It's a pay for play situation. Very few
pro-Dommes have clients who are loyal to them alone. I would
think that would be disheartening for a lot of women.

In any event, I was glad to hear from you again. More than being
right about a prediction I'm happy to know you're happy in your
life.

Madam

Thanks to Christine and Madamplz. Sorry I am a little late
responding.

Madam, I can imagine your fun with "Harold" and am pretty sure
he was having a lot of fun himself, although of a somewhat
different kind.

In the course of my research on "money slaves" I was really
astonished by the vast number of internet sites devoted - in
part or exclusively - to money slavery, all looking and sounding
(reading) pretty much the same, as though they were all copying
each others. That got me to wonder how much (or how little)
money any of those dozens of women could really make. The
business seems flourishing, so that would seem to suggest that
active money slaves are much more numerous than one might
imagine.

One would think that giving money and gifts to a woman who gives
absolutely nothing back in exchange and whom the giver will
probably never even meet is a very rare perversion. Apparently
it isn't and that keeps me puzzled.

Three male members of the French D/s group on which I started
the discussion have come out stating they are or have been money
slaves, and have agreed to answer my questions.

The most interesting (and intelligent) of the three stated that
he has had two such relationships, one lasting two years and a
half. He never met the woman (although she lived nearby) and
never even talked to her on the phone either.

He estimated that he spent about half of his income on her.
Although he was able to pay all his own bills, he couldn't save
any money or spend anything on leisure or entertainment for
himself. [another guy wasn't as careful: sometimes he had to
skip lunch and had trouble paying his rent.]

According to him, the woman had another, or several other, money
slaves when he first got in touch with her, but gradually
dropped them until he remained the only one, of which he was
very proud. After a while (several months of "building
confidence") he gave her direct access to his bank account and
credit card. He claimed that she was not particularly demanding,
and that in fact she didn't really need the money - which made
it all the more exciting for him.

In answer to one of my questions, he said that he would love to
live with the woman in a D/s - kind of relationship with her in
possession of all his money. The reasons why the relationship
ended are not quite clear, as this young man (he is in his mid
thirties) has a rather oblique and convoluted way of expressing
himself. In the course of our discussion he asked me if I would
like for him to become my money slave. He seemed quite serious.
Of course I said that was completely out of the question.
However I have been wondering whether I might offer him to give
money not to me (I don't need it either) but to some of my
favorite charities (it's more a fantasy than a serious project,
though).

I wonder if anybody on DOMestic is interested in discussing
money slavery (it has various different names) and whether there
are members who are money slaves and would like to explain why
they do it and what satisfaction they derive from it.

Michele